Posted by: Viv
Posted: 13th Oct 2011
errolsyd says: This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules.
Ho hum errolsyd,- I have already answered most of your points in my earlier post but since you don't seem to have grasped much of the information I'll repeat it below where necessary.
1. If you are genuinely unable to comprehend that arriving without a visa is LEGAL under international law if you claim to be a refugee then you really are a fool. Come on - it's not rocket science, nor is the reason for it. If you are fleeing persecution and threats of torture/death from your government/community then applying within your homeland for a passport/visa would obviously be suicidal. The reason that so many men come alone was also explained before. It's because these families are generally not wealthy and people smugglers don't come cheap so parents can often only afford to send one person. Like all loving parents they value their children's safety over their own so they have to choose which one goes. Since their societies generally value men over women and older children will obviously fare better on their own it is usually the eldest son who goes. Get it now? As for the designer sunglasses and clothes. Where are they? Do you have any photographic evidence to support this apparently ridiculous and irrelevant claim?
2. If your family suffered constantly from open hostility, discrimination and threats of violence and if you knew that others of your ethnicity/religion/political persuasion had already been imprisoned/tortured/killed for no other reason than that they fitted into one or more of these 3 categories, then you would do everything you could to remove at least 1 of your children from this danger. In this situation sending them on a leaky boat to a foreign land with an alien culture may seem the lesser of 2 evils. I don't know how my friend's parents fled El Salvador but after having their home and children, plus many of their extended family, blown to pieces I don't think they would have been too fussy about the means of their escape. (It is too late at night to ring her now and check but I will try to remember to ask next time I speak to her if you like).
3. What other countries? Boats don't generally go overland.
4. Wrong again - that is EXACTLY THE CASE with Tamils from Sri Lanka and Hazaris from Afghanistan, who make up many of our current immigrant detainees. Anyway it is not necessary for a government to openly declare that 1 or more groups of it's citizens are now persona non gratis in their own country in order for people to know that they are endangered. All that is required is for authorities to turn a blind eye towards discrimination and violence against them.
5. If we allowed them to live and work in the community then we would not have to foot all these bills. We are dealing with refugees in the most expensive way possible, just to pander to xenophobes like yourself. However, given that we insist on locking them up although they have committed no crime (see 1 above if you still don't believe this), then we are obviously depriving them of the means to support themselves so we must do it for them.. You seem incapable of comprehending the background of these people.. After leaving behind their homeland and loved ones in fear of persecution and death, and then enduring a long and scary boat journey in full knowledge that if they survive this they will then be imprisoned on arrival, they are usually in a pretty fragile mental state by the time they reach our detention centres. To then deprive them of a substance to which they are addicted - and make no mistake, nicotine is HIGHLY addictive for most people as you should know - is tantamount to torture. Many smokers in a healthy state of mind find it impossible to give up. Going cold turkey on the basis of someone else's decision when you are traumatised to start with would likely send many people quite literally insane. As for free visits to Luna Park. Everyone, but especially children, need a little fun in their lives. Again, it is not their fault that we refuse to let them earn a living so they could pay their own way.
6. Since cigarettes would only be available here to those already addicted (since people couldn't buy their own) then suing us for their habit would obviously fail. Are you totally incapable of logical thought? In the example I gave, my friend funded her own addictions. I was simply trying to show just how strong the addiction to nicotine can be by pointing out that she was able to give up speed and heroin but not tobacco.
7. I agree with you that the taxi driver who punched the old lady deserved jail, but his ethnicity is irrelevant. The courts are often too lenient There have been horrific crimes committed here by people of many nationalities, including Australian. What about the spate of attacks on Indian people a few months back? The likely nationality of those criminals is pretty obviously not foreign! As for checking out the names of such people, a person's last name or even their appearance is no guarantee of where they were born. People of Asian or African ancestry may well still look like a new arrival even though their family has lived here for several generations. My parents anglicised their name by deed poll soon after coming here just after WW2 because ignorant Australians thought that because it was German they must be 'the enemy', and due to marriage my last name is now a very common anglo-saxon one! If new people move next door to you, you know nothing about them either so what's the difference whether they are from another part of Australia or another country? I live in a very ethnically diverse suburb and until this year I was the only Australian in my court. Yet my neighbours - Indians, Turks, Sudanese, Vietnamese and Filipinos - are without fail courteous and helpful. The teenagers opposite (Sudanese) have several times come over to help me weed my garden without ever having been asked and when my letterbox blew over in heavy winds I arrived home from work to find another neighbour (Vietnamese) putting it back up for me! And yet again it needs to be repeated that arriving ANYWHERE as a refugee is LEGAL under international law. Your statement is just plain factually incorrect.
8. I have visited people in immigration detention centres to provide moral support (and believe me they are very grateful to know that not all Australians are racist and uncaring) and have also given money to organisations that buy dictionaries and other materials to help them learn english whilst imprisoned. I have offered temporary accommodation to recently released detainees if the government offered premises (for which they would pay rent) are far from the few people they know here. So far the offer has not been taken up. I have 2 or 3 spare beds. On this subject, you may not be aware that most boat people end up proving their refugee status and being allowed to stay anyway, which makes the obscene expense of their detention all the more ridiculous.
9. Since trying to 'do good' is obviously a desirable aim, I wear the badge of 'do gooder' with pride. If you admit that you are a racist, then why did you complain about me calling you just that? As for learning English, it is not something that can be achieved overnight! It is the second hardest language in the world to master due to its lack of consistency in grammar and spelling. Indians, other Asians and many Europeans learn it in school but it still take a while to get really conversant with it until they have been here for a while. A bit of encouragement along the way is a lot more help to them than ridicule. My daughter recently moved to France knowing only primary school French and has experience first hand the discrimination of the natives - the French being as intolerant as many here towards those who do not speak their language fluently. Assimilation should only mean giving up customs that directly conflict with ours - not to do so indicates disrespect There is nothing wrong with different religions and cultures existing side by side. I have found it interesting and educational to attend Chinese and Italian weddings and parties.. Soon I will be going to a Vietnamese/El Salvadorian wedding. Open your mind a bit and enrich your life! The Australian way isn't the only way.
10. I am all for generally secular education myself but I see nothing wrong with festivals of different nationalities (whether religious or not) being celebrated at schools so long as all groups are given equal prominence. This is the best way to break down the xenophobic barriers put up by people like yourself.. In the words of Nelson Mandela - 'Racism is 100% ignorance'. As for the seperate swimming areas for Muslim women - I actually agree with you on that one. As stated above, I think it is disrespectful of migrants to expect us to change our customs for them. I'm not so sure about toilets however. Every public building I've ever been in has had his and hers in this department. Even if some extremist Muslims have said that they want Sharia law here, that does not mean it is likely to happen. We live in a democracy after all. Can you imagine either of the major political parties supporting this? The halal symbol on foods is to inform Muslims that any animal products they contain were obtained from creatures killed according to Muslim custom (ie not stunned before killing). Despite my Jewish background (they have an equivalent custom - called kosher) I abhore this and have actively campaigned against it for animals killed both here and overseas. But this is not sufficient reason to demonise all Muslims. Like Jews and Christians, they include in their ranks extremists, moderates and all shades inbetween. All cultures are cruel to animals, not just Muslims. If you don't believe that this includes us then go visit a factory farm. As for your last sentence, we are forcing them to be bludgers by imprisoning them. That is not their fault. Reply