Why can't we have a genuine discussion without being labelled
Posted by: errolsyd
20th Apr 2012 10:07pm
Why can't we have a genuine discussion about the way we feel about Illegal boat people,gay marriage,lack of disipline of our youth, without being called bigots,rednecks,racists or homophobes?
Is it because our detractors really have no genuine arguement except name calling and labeling ??
Is it because our detractors really have no genuine arguement except name calling and labeling ??
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Comments 20
19chris51
You are right... start and end of story, they don`t have any idea, they can not articulate, they are the ones who idiots don`t worry
19chris51
Hi errolsyd , I think you are right, we should be able to have discussions, and voice our opinions, name calling never gets people anywhere (except angry), I must admit that I have rather strong opinions about most of these issues, but cannot be bothered to voice them,because of name calling, don`t get me wrong I can name call just as well as most of them, but prefer not to, as it gets me nowhere, and makes me feel bad.
Nefertari
Well said errolsyd!!
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and not to have that opinion sneered at by others also I am in total agreement with your last statement!
19chris51
very good Nefertari
DeNiro
A 'genuine argument', errolsyd, is by definition one which can be backed up by logic and hard evidence. In my previous discussions with you about refugees I found that it was in fact YOU who could not come up with any such arguments. I backed up every one of my points with facts and logic but all you did was repeat your previous (unsubstantiated) points. So ... if you don't want to be called a bigot, redneck, racist or homophobe ...then don't act like one!
errolsyd
Hi thanks for the complements. I do not believe in gay marriage! I am sick and tired of the so called government letting in the ILLEGAL BOAT people and blaming Abbott when they could with the help of the greens get it past with no trouble. This what I believe and will stick to it. Fact 55 ILLEGAL boats since Jan 2012 = 3987 + 77 crew . Fact June = 12 days 11 boats = 457 and on we go.
Labor budget for these 450per mth work it out for yourself but I think we are over buget!
19chris51
the word here is "OPINION" , not argument
19chris51
It is peoples opinions, OPINIONS being the operative word here. wether it be refugee`s or whatever.
annacathryn
Hear hear Viv!
ozycash
a lot of name calling by certain people is to be expected as they misread the topic or do not understand the topic.
too many people are not smart enough to think for themselves, or are not mature enough therefore these 'babies' must start calling everybody names as they have nothing to say and just want to be heard saying something!
those 'people' need you pity, as you are more intelligent then them!
you can try to defend yourself but they will not understand
you can try to teach them but they will not understand
just send them your pity, that normally makes most of them happy
bmdnut
You can have a discussion, but it won't usually go far in a moderated environment, and it's useless if there are too many participants from either side who won't objecively consider all points raised. I read a few discussions on US based boards, and it's not only "conservatives" who get labelled - it depends on the particpants and their reasons for entering the discussion.
I have no problems with putting my beliefs out there. Here's a few:
Illegal boat people - If they arrive without passports or other identification, the onus should be on them to prove they are who they claim to be. At the first sign of a lack of co-operation, they should be deported back to the country of origin. The appeal process should be streamlined - and again the onus should be on them to demonstrate they have grounds for an appeal before they get a delay in deporting them.
Gay Marriage - considering the relative ease of divorce, immigration inspired marriage, marriages of convenience and defacto marriage, I have no problem with allowing same sex couples the same rights as a traditional marriage - how can you preserve the sanctity of marriage when it was allowed to crumble decades ago? I do not agree with the notion of compelling a particular religion or minister to perform such marriages, but they should have the same rights and acknowlegement in society as any other couple prepared to formally commit their lives to each other.
Lack of discipline of our youth - I've never raised kids, so I can't provide any deep insights or experience here. Purely from observation, I think the pendulum or kids rights and freedoms has swung too far without responsibilty and consequences swinging in balance.
So there you go, so far I'm a conservative liberal fencesitter and I've only superficially touched 3 issues!
Hartmut
I agree we should be able to discuss anything without name calling or being disrespectful. However, we are all on different levels; and if someone feels
threatened or challenged in their 'holy' beliefs. or opinions, they often lash out according to those levels they are in.
DEBOCO
I believe in climate change, it's been changing since the beginning of time. This whole debate takes God out of the equation. The bible states that in the last days (which we are already in), there will be more earthquakes and other weather events. No one should damage the environment, but taxing people is going to do nothing to stop that. The major problem in our society today is the total lack of discipline and respect for one another and the abondonment of moral laws and "polical correctness" crap. I call a spade a spade ie: marriage is for a man and a woman, not any other configuration someone comes up with to make their lifestyle acceptable.
Hartmut
Well, despite reputable scientists saying we do , the non-believers (of that we human cause climate change) have as much proof for their disbelief - as there is for the alleged 'Biblical End of the World'.
In other words, believing in anything is one thing, but stating a mere belief as a fact - or as a tool to discount scientific facts is another.
(And in case there is anyone worrying about any doomsday scenario, be that the Mayan 2012 End of The World prophesy - or the Bible's Armageddon, sleep easy, because it is not going to happen.
Why? Because NOTHING is or can be set in stone. And since we have God given Free Will we can change any predictions.)
col001
Maybe my issue on climate change is a little off the beaten track from your first post. However I used that as an example. The ICCC has been around for ages, just no one took any notice. What Al Gore did was spread their gospel according to them, I personally think it was a bit alarmist and panic driven, particularly when you look at evolution. Our leaders and heads of state unfortunately accepted what he said without question, maybe because he was once the second most powerful person in the world.
The fact the evidence presented by the ICC supports both climate change and evolution, we are being told to make a choice, but the choice we make must agree with theirs, so much for freedom of speech. What happens next is that people, like myself don't know we are talking about, and are labeled naysayers.
The fact is I have not seen one thread of evidence that specifically points to the planet ceasing to exist if we don't stop emitting CO2.
Another point, why are we attacking CO2 when another greenhouse gas (water vapor) is more prevalent in our atmosphere. All greenhouse gases can obsorb sunlight and reflect this as heat. Also the adds that the ICCC use show a factory spewing smoke into the sky. We can see this smoke as well as smell it. CO2 is colourless and odorless. Iam not saying CO2 is not in the mix, but so are a lot of other elements. Our 2 recorded ice ages have been preceded by changes in climatic conditions, increased atmospheric CO2 and increased volcanic activity.
Trying to postpone this forthcoming ice age, and these so called climate scientists agree it will occur this century, is akin to reversing nature. I have been brought up with the knowledge that you can't change nature, I think most of us have.
This is why we see little genuine discussions, about anything. An opinion is reached by who knows. Its enshrined in political correctness and that's the end of it. You don't need an argument or evidence to support the claim because any detractors or people who have a different opinion are simply not toeing the line of political correctness.
By the way Has anyone looked in the dictionary to try and get the meaning of this phrase. Does it have any real relevance and are politicians always correct,? I don't think so.
mysteron347
Perfectly correct.
They actually have no arguments to present - mechanical naysaying and describing arguments as being "old-fashioned" now being accepted as a complete reasoned logical argument. Just reach into the box of all-purpose dismissive labels - all the argument you need.
errolsyd
Dead right mysteron347 notice not ONE of these naysayers have attempted to come up with a convincing arguementsince I posted this! Where are they??
col001
You are not far off the mark with your last statement.
However one step further, we may live in a country with freedom of speech but we can only voice that freedom ,without being hailed down of course, so long as we agree with the general opinion.
An example:- I believe in climate change because it's been around for thousands of years that we know off. It called evolution. Scientific research shows us that CO2 has increased in our atmosphere, which I accept. But I don't believe in the current opinions or disaster that will befall us all as portrayed by Al Gore and the climate change crew. That make me a non believer, proberly because Iam not the ex vise president of the US so what would I know. Well one thing, I do have an opinion.
Lets face it ,the evidence that has been thrown in our faces by the ACCC can relate to the end of the world, as they want us to believe, or we are simply going into an ice age cycle. Ironically the southern hemisphere which is 2/3 water will be the last area to feel the effects of cooling. Ice ages are also preceded by an abundance of CO2 in the atmosphere, as well as increased volcanic activity. So why can't I have a different opinion without be criticised?
Hartmut
Of course youy have the right to voice your opinions.
So, I say, in my opinion, your slightly derogative comment ...' I don't believe in the current opinions or disaster that will befall us all as portrayed by Al Gore and the climate change crew.' ...is really not an argument to dispute climate change, when so many ( global-wide) reputable scientist do say we are responsible for climate change.
The best I can opinionate is that we should all wait for a definitive - and rock solid scientific proof - before we all get into our hairs with unproven statements.
CAT17
You will get no criticism from me I agree with what you have said. There is so much misinformation and hype out there and really no one knows for certain what the climate will be in the future. This planet has been changing its climate from the beginning of its existence. It cools, it heats up and cools again. We have had an ice age, a flood and I guess we will have many more changes. The one thing that is crazy is to put a tax on carbon. all that will do is make everything exspensive and do nothing to change the climate.